Happy for them, I’m sure the 100 people that still can afford computers will appreciate it.
Thinkpads are usually acquired as enterprise retire their stock, 2 or 3 year old devices for a fraction of the new price.
Thinkpads are generally invredibly cheap due to scale. You can also refurbished last years model for under 400 usd.
Hey… people win the lotto all the time! So for brief moments throughout the day there’s probably 101-107 people in the world who can still afford one!
One thing to highlight: T-series Lenovo laptops are mainstream business products shipped at a huge scale.
This is not a small-scale experimental product for the tinkerers. This may define the biggest laptop segment if it works out well. It might be the first time in a while that something like this hits such a huge market.
wtf are you talking about? this isn’t “hitting the market”, this is staple of the thinkpads for ever.
These particular models are about to be released, hitting the market. With all renown Lenovo got for good long-term support, this is their most repairable product as of yet.
this is their most repairable product as of yet.
thinkpads were always repairable, that and durability is their number one attribute. you present it as if it were somehow new thing.
Even though they were considered repairable, they are now better than ever at that, and they require as little expense as possible to replace certain parts.
I don’t know what’s so hard about that. They had it good, they made it better.
there isn’t really anything revolutionary described in the article (maybe with an exception of these detachable ports).
i have no idea how much things got worse in the last few years, so it is possible they are fixing something they broken lately, but again, presenting it as something new, when it is in fact something that thinkpads were known for since the last ice age and is why people are using them, is just strange to me.
it is really on the level of “omg you guys, did you know that ferrari is doing really fast cars?”
Nice to see this pop up as Apple announce their 5yr plan to flood the world’s landfills & scrap yards with 8gb fused ram Neo’s.
Hasn’t Apple been soldering everything to the motherboard for ages now?
Oh yeah…for well over a decade. If you’re REALLY lucky the proprietary form factor m.2 is user replaceable and not just sad bits soldered direct to the PCB. (Edit: I really really hate Autoassume, that’s supposed to be “SSD bits”… I’ll leave it as is because it’s funny)
My wife has a 2017 MacBook Air, at some point in the last few years it stopped getting system and security updates. She didn’t notice until she got a pop-up from Chrome saying that her OS is no longer supported. Completely ignored it until around October last year when some websites stopped working and gave an error indicating out of date certificates.
(There’s a lot in those last 3 sentences that is wildly troubling to me…)
Took me from October until mid-January to convince her to TRY Linux. So I went to buy her a new m.2…and paid an extra £20 on top of standard because of the proprietary form factor. Luckily I bought before the major price hikes…got a 256gb m(ac).2 for ~£90. Would have just backed up her files and wiped the original drive but she wanted to be able to switch back to her exact installation if she didn’t like Linux…and the new drive is double the capacity 👍Good grief what a stupid future we live in.
And “sad bits” makes perfect sense.
I’m glad i switched to mint on my laptop, I hope it only continues to improve. If only we could self-manufacture the hardware, too…
At this point I’m so fucking fed up with the industry gatekeeping users, colluding against us, outright ABANDONING us because the fucking AI firms “bought all of our manufacturing output”, I don’t think I would even mind that much if I have to sacrifice a closet, or a whole room of my house, to contain the much bulkier homebrewed DIY electronics.
If 64 gigs of RAM a couple friends manufactured in their garage had to take up the space of a refrigerator – not a mini-fridge, i mean a whole fucking full scale kitchen appliance, I WOULD RATHER MAKE ROOM THAN PAY THOSE FUCKING CORPO PARASITES EVER AGAIN.
I mean…yeah…I guess I could live with homebrew tech on a scale of 64gb of ram being the size of a full fridge…but where the fuck do I put it?! Between the my wife and I there’s barely enough space for us and just our stuff in the house we own…😒🖕 Fucking Big Corpo Tech is in bed with Big Housing to conspire against the space required for Big HomebrewTech to be a contender…
*as usual
They got scared by Framework sucess
Well, good…
Though reparability is a good part of it, another would be a concrete commitment that the form factor of various things will be consistent generation to generation, that Gen 8 boards will fit into a current laptop.
I suppose Framework will be the better laptop for individuals looking to buy a new laptop, but also business class laptops come with fancy enterprise things like on-site repairs. So I think large corporations, the main customers of new T series Thinkpads, will continue buying them just the same anyway.
I think the people benefitting the most here actually are going to be the people buying off-lease Thinkpads. Those of us who know a quality used laptop is better than a cheapo new one (like a Pavilion or Ideapad), but also don’t want to spring for a brand new laptop (in which case Framework would be the best option - they’d be great used too, but they’re not that common on the used market)
Exactly, but it still won’t get them my money. I believe in rewarding companies who had the balls to listen to their customers first with my dollars. Framework will be my next laptop no matter what any other competitor comes out with.
They’re the only reason we’re seeing any company starting to u-turn and make modular/repairable laptops.
Framework will be my next laptop no matter what
Big tent Framework?
I was not aware of that stuff you linked, appreciate the sources and education. I read through them and damn… 😩 there’s always some wacko ruining shit for the rest of us.
I agree that DHH guy sounds like a bigoted nut, but the thing about the Hyprland community being toxic doesn’t sound any different to just about any other linux community. There’s always some douche wanting to sound superior to others on the forums and usually a lot of them.
Elitest mentality kills just about any community enjoyment for a broad spectrum of intrests. So to me that’s just background noise, the DHH thing though… you have a valid concern.
I don’t think there is any truly clean competition sadly we seem to live in a world of the lesser evils instead of the lesser goods. I’ll keep my eyes out and see if any better options come up, or if you have any recommends on companies to keep in mind.
Have you heard about Tuxedo computers?
European, iirc. Default Linux focus. Possibly repairability focused (an expectation, but I don’t recall).
That “big tent” argument sounds to me like one that leads you to have a ‘nazi bar’.
I suppose Framework will be the better laptop for individuals looking to buy a new laptop, but also business class laptops come with fancy enterprise things like on-site repairs. So I think large corporations, the main customers of new T series Thinkpads, will continue buying them just the same anyway.
I think the people benefitting the most here actually are going to be the people buying off-lease Thinkpads. Those of us who know a quality used laptop is better than a cheapo new one (like a Pavilion or Ideapad), but also don’t want to spring for a brand new laptop (in which case Framework would be the best option - they’d be great used too, but they’re not that common on the used market)
This is me. I’m casually looking at a used Think Pad for Linux purposes and like you say, I know a well looked after second hand business class T model is better than a brand new shittop
I kinda doubt Framework’s success, no matter how large by niche manufacturer standards, even reaches Lenovo’s sales on a bad day.
Good that they’re (apparently) changing though.yeah, my company recently switched away from dell to Framework laptops. a couple of my coworkers with the Framework laptops really like them. They like how sturdy they are. The magnesium alloy case doesn’t flex at all. Our dell laptops with plastic cases often get dented and bent so eastily, and cause various problems.
We also have a couple Lenovo laptops, and I haven’t heard of any issues. Generally, the plastic used for Lenovo’s cases are noticeably thicker and harder than dells’.
I definitely feel a sense of ease knowing that if anything goes wrong with our framework laptops, I will most likely be able to fix it.
That’s awesome, but what issues did they have with dell? They’re pretty easy to disassemble and repair if you don’t buy the cheap consumer shit, get latitudes. But I’m all for straying away for framework.
Our dell laptops with plastic cases often get dented and bent so eastily, and cause various problems.
My work’s Latitude barely flexes, apples to apples?
We’ve been buying the Vostro series and XPS series.
I know the Vostro series is low end, but I thought the XPS series would be higher quality, but they had cases that fllexed just as much as the lower end Vostro.
TBH, we have not been buying Latitudes because they did not have the specs we were looking for. If recall correctly, yeah, the Latitudes we did have stood up fairly well.
Lmao
Yes, but if you are running Windows on them, do they still inject Chinese state-sponsored malware into Windows on every boot from UEFI/BIOS storage?
They were caught doing this on several occasions, to the point where Lenovo products are forbidden across significant swaths of the U.S. government and military.
Err… were they? I remember vulnerabilities and a ban from SOME of the US gov agencies, but not clear if it was because of spying concerns or because they wanted a US supplier.
How this hasn’t killed all serious interest is beyond me.
Very few people, relatively speaking, have heard anything about this whatsoever. That’s how.
There’s this thing called uninstalling the factory OS and reinstalling with a clean image. If you go a step further you can even get rid of Windows altogether and install Linux.
How can you trust that there’s no rootkits being injected into your linux install?
How can you trust other laptop manufacturers aren’t doing the same if we’re going with unfounded assumptions?
Most Linux images offer checksums to verify integrity.
Track record and reputation
Lenovo does not have a reputation of placing root kits in their Linux installs so there you go.
Goldfish memories by most muggles and normies.
Plus the latest shiny and feature FOMO.
And then you have procurement who are told to get the most at the least cost, allowing state-owned companies to undercut most competition. Without clearly-specified guidelines that exclude dangerous tech, most rank-and-file salarymen will be told by Dilbert bosses to order the hardware or look for a different job.
How would you recommend someone shop for a laptop? Any good guides?
So, some of rakabis’ advice is pretty good. I’ll just say that if you’re wanting to get away from being locked into a computational ecosystem with an even worse support lifetime than windows devices, avoid buying a Mac. A 2018 MacBook stopped receiving 90% of updates in 2024.
Caveat that by saying that older MacBooks, i.e. pre Mac made chips, are usually pretty reasonably priced on the used market. If you’re willing to switch to Linux then there’s even really good support for the hardware, with basically every distro working on MacBooks with Intel chips out of the box. The only part of deploying Linux on my wife’s 2017 MB Air that was REALLY a headache was the webcam. There’s info on every step to get the drivers installed and everything working, it’s just not all in one place, and a little outdated.Don’t listen to what the other guy is saying, it’s all bullshit. His vocabulary betrays this wonabe haxxor with bad ideas about everything and weird choices, and his suggestions are the same.
If you have the money and want simplicity, reliability, and interoperability, go for a Mac. Just clench your sphincter and maximize the RAM; min. 32Gb ought to be minimally appropriate for a 7-8yr lifespan of basic duties. And FFS, go for what your current data uses up ×2.5 or 1Tb, whichever is larger (vital performance reasons in that). Don’t get the smallest storage unless third-party upgrade options exist like for the Mac Mini M4. And remember: all RAM and a lot of storage is integrated these days, which is why you should always max it out; there is no upgrade path except wholesale replacement of the machine. CPU is largely immaterial unless you are doing truly heavy lifting like video editing or AI, so that can often be the lowest choice.
If you want freedom and truly unconstrained system, some form of Linux/BSD on a Framework system is the way to go. Or if a desktop, hand-assemble it yourself.
If you are going to stick with Windows, go for a business-class Dell. Trust me, it’ll be almost as $$$$ painful as a Mac, but these little f**kers are built to last. At least you can upgrade the RAM and on-board storage, although I honestly recommend not going under 32Gb for anything other than basic tasks. It’ll be a lot more zippy with 32Gb even if you spend the first week tearing all the AI and built-in spyware out of Windows.
Running a business class Dell on Debian. Fantastic machine.
Source?
One example of many.
You must be new to tech to not remember this. Wasn’t all that long ago.
Not even remotely the same thing OP is claiming. It’s their own windows flavor version with auto start script. It’s bad but not that bad.
Read it again. It occurs even with a full system wipe and re-install from Microsoft-direct media, or even a full hard drive swap. It is wholly independent of what is on the hard drive, the only restriction being that it can only successfully run when injected into Windows.
Trust me bro *tm
My memory was fuzzy, but I think it wasn’t UEFI but apps/drivers, but j could be wrong
You are correct, however they were malicious in nature and loaded on every boot from the UEFI/BIOS. They required Windows and auto-terminated the install if they already existed.
They can’t be a 10, only framework gets a 10. Nothing compares.
Lenovo not dropping the ball on their thinkpad reputation but improving it. Very impressive
Ok but how long is it going to be supported? If they abandon the idea its just a particularly expensive regular laptop, even if they keep supporting it you’re locked into ThinkPads ecosystem. It’s not truly repairable until its a standard that doesn’t rely on the benevolence of a single company.
Thinkpads had 3rd party replacement parts for the last 20 years.
Perhaps do some homework. ThinkPad have dominated in business for decades for good reason
Think-pad? Pshh, a momentary gimmick.
(My very first laptop was a ThinkPad with 256mb of RAM, 100 years ago. My current laptop is a ThinkPad with 32gb of ram)
What ecosystem? pretty sure the “ecosystem” is standardized computer parts for thinkpads.
So to go down the bullet point list:
- Swappable battery: I’m going to assume its a generic battery and therefore the best possible option here since I know some (a lot of) laptops have weird proprietary batteries. Point for Thinkpad.
- Industry standard m.2: Even notebooks can do this.
- Easy keyboard replacement: This looks like a lock in? Of the laptops I’ve seen where you can swap the keyboard, which is actually quite a few but in a really dodgy looking way, the keyboards look very different from this. Point for looking WAY easier but might take it away again if this keyboard really is proprietary.
- Swappable memory: I’ll give you that many notebooks solder this in but its easy to find a regular laptop with swappable memory.
- Streamlined display repairs: Much like the keyboard this looks awesome and WAY less jank than normal way you have to do it but it also looks like a proprietary part.
- Modular cooling system: I don’t really know enough to say on this one, most laptops have a cooling system you can take out with similar form factors but I doubt they’d work well with random parts from other machines, then again I doubt this laptop would work well with random parts from other laptops either so your still probably locked into buying the correct one from ThinkPad.
- Modular ports: This is actually pretty awesome, though again where else am I even going to get these modular ports.
Ultimately its still good, the stuff that’s already common has been made way easier and some new options have opened up for repair and replacement, I can’t really blame thinkpad for being the only ones providing this hardware when they’re the only ones making a laptop that would use it in the first place, its still an ecosystem lock in to a degree though even if its not an intentional one. It would be nice to see some competition in the space.
Yeah, it is still a laptop in the end. More repairable than most but still a laptop. I just had a problem with the “ecosystem” wording as this is best used to describe unrepairable pieces of crap that refuses third party parts (looking at you, Apple).
We’re so back
Literally. Repairability used to be expected.
Could they please cooperate with Framework and create Universal Joints?
At a guess, such cooperation would undermine Lenovo’s profit margin and would thus be a non-starter for them.
Enter government regulation, to pinch corporations by the ear and drag them to doing what’s right for society.
I HATE the idea if you can’t make money off it, even if would make the world 10x better for everyone, companies won’t do it. Shareholders gotta eat!!
This its why capitalism is failing. Shareholder profit is a fundamentally unsustainable incentive.
Sorry to be pedantic but strictly speaking “shareholder profit” isn’t the issue with capitalism because that would include worker-owned cooperatives which are not causing the same problems.
The issue is the legal obligation of a private or public company to make an increase in returns for shareholders year on year.
This is why decisions like downgrading quality, design by committee to appeal to focus groups, everything becoming a subscription service, and firing staff to reduce wage overheads in the last financial quarter exist.
Because it’s easier for the company directors / C-level executives to make these decisions which make line go up, rather than try to justify to shareholders why a steady or small dip in returns is necessary for longer term investment and growth.
This is compounded by the shortsightedness of companies only planning quarter to quarter then governments + central banks basing all economic decisions on GDP figures.
Because the easiest thing to make national line go up is to give tax cuts to the owning elites for them to shuffle even more money around in the stock and commodity markets, they buy up all the assets of the working class, the middle class, and the governments selling them off.
But funnily enough, centralising all the apparent wealth in the hands of a few silver-spooned arseholes is not a basis for a functioning society.
Hot take because Line Must Go Up is being blamed on "For the Shareholders!" lately, but:
It’s not just publicly traded companies. Private companies have greedy C-suites too.
Idc.
Do it.
Does 10/10 mean it’s got RAM and drives accessible without needing to disassemble the whole fucking thing?
Nice to see both aren’t soldered onto the motherboard, but we’ve still gone backwards in the last 20 years.
Back in the day every screw on thinkpads had a series of little symbols on them to tell you which ones you needed to undo in order to get to the ram, storage, keyboard, and fans. Without needing a repair manual. I hope they brought that back!
Holy shit I’ve never heard of this but that’s awesome. I would love to see that nowadays
without needing to disassemble the whole fucking thing
well you still need to take the bottom cover off
Nah they soldiered it to the cpu cooler cause fuck you thats why
Read the article. They’re using replaceable modules.
I know i was saying it satire, i probably should have put a /S
Does the ram comes with a torque key?
Who needs catalytic converters with all this RAM around?
the ram slots need those wire mesh cages for catalytic converters
Is there a version that doesn’t have the AI cuntery baked into it?
What is this about? Ai down to the bios? Confused at this
“AI” built into the CPU :(
They still don’t seem anywhere near as rugged as the tanks that were the IBM thinkpads and Early Lenovo Thinkpads. Which is a shame. The OG thinkpads were some of the best built laptops there were. Still better than some of the other cheap crap that passes for a laptop these days, but still a shell of its former glory.
I have a lower end, but capable gaming laptop. R7, 1Tb Nvme, 32Gb, RTX… It is easy to open, service, expandable, with space for a SATA 2.5, for example. Spill proof, lighted kbd, etc.
It’s kind of built like an old school ThinkPad. A tank.
And that’s why I’m getting rid of it.
The thing IS a tank.
I really use it as a laptop, I do onsite stuff, so I lug this thing around all day. Many use these as “transportable”. I don’t, I have a beefy workstation at home, so the laptop generally lives in its backpack.
So, for me, a professional grade, light but sturdy, and repairable machine is just what the doctor ordered.
If you need rugged, some gamer laptops are pretty tough and accessible, but you will pay the chunk tax.
If you REALLY want rugged, get a proper ruggedized laptop, and carry it around.
The issue I had with my previous Lenovo Thinkpad wasn’t that it wasn’t repairable when it broke, it was. The issue was that the cost of just replacing the keyboard was prohibitively high. Higher than the cost of a new laptop. So it became e-waste.
Get repairability too bad they start at 1200 USD
I tend to buy T-series laptops once they are about 5 years old, and still have tons of life left in them.
I’ll probably be looking for a T14 Gen 2 this year. Nothing wrong with my T495 'cept that my kid spilled water on it but fortunately only killed the hall sensor.
In fact, I thought the laptop was dead but I. Noticed a little corrosion on the hall sensor board, unplugged it, laptop started right up.
And it’s still got plenty of life in it to hand down to my kid for Minecraft and such.
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That’s a pretty standard starting price for a decent laptop. Or at least it was a few years ago.
