Don’t give money to google by buying Pixel phones. Even buying used, creates demand as people are more likely to keep upgrading every year as they know it will be easy to sell their used Pixels for a good price.
There is and there never will be a perfect solution and you shouldn’t let an imperfect solution stop you from using the best one of these just because buying a used pixel MIGHT urge somebody to buy another new one. You may not want to do that, but it is silly and way too idealistic and impractical to demand others not to switch to Graphene because of that.
Buying a used pixel to degoogle and make your phone more secure and less likely to spy on you more than balances out the potential for there being one more new pixel on the future. There will never be a perfect solution and this one is fine enough for most. You may disagree and that’s ok.
the pixel is a very secure phone from a hardware level, the full list of security features missing from other android manufacturers is in the grapheneos faq
there is no comparable alternatives right now, though something might come out of the graphene and motorola deal
From the grapheneos faq section on device support, which details the kinds of hardware and firmware security features required and present on pixels (but may be missing on other devices):
Hardware, firmware and software specific to devices like drivers play a huge role in the overall security of a device. The goal of the project is not to slightly improve some aspects of insecure devices and supporting a broad set of devices would be directly counter to the values of the project. A lot of the low-level work also ends up being fairly tied to the hardware.
Non-exhaustive list of requirements for future devices, which are standards met or exceeded by current Pixel devices:
Support for using alternate operating systems including full hardware security functionality
Complete monthly Android Security Bulletin patches without any regular delays longer than a week for device support code (firmware, drivers and HALs)
At least 5 years of updates from launch for device support code with phones (Pixels now have 7) and 7 years with tablets
Device support code updated to new monthly, quarterly and yearly releases of AOSP within several months to provide new security improvements (Pixels receive these in the month they’re released)
Linux 6.1, 6.6 or 6.12 Generic Kernel Image (GKI) support
Hardware accelerated virtualization usable by GrapheneOS (ideally pKVM to match Pixels but another usable implementation may be acceptable)
Hardware memory tagging (ARM MTE or equivalent)
Hardware-based coarse grained Control Flow Integrity (CFI) for baseline coverage where type-based CFI isn’t used or can’t be deployed (BTI/PAC, CET IBT or equivalent)
PXN, SMEP or equivalent
PAN, SMAP or equivalent
Isolated radios (cellular, Wi-Fi, Bluetooth, NFC, etc.), GPU, SSD, media encode and decode, image processor and other components
Support for A/B updates of both the firmware and OS images with automatic rollback if the initial boot fails one or more times
Verified boot with rollback protection for firmware
Verified boot with rollback protection for the OS (Android Verified Boot)
Verified boot key fingerprint for yellow boot state displayed with a secure hash (non-truncated SHA-256 or better)
StrongBox keystore provided by secure element
Hardware key attestation support for the StrongBox keystore
Attest key support for hardware key attestation to provide pinning support
Weaver disk encryption key derivation throttling provided by secure element
Insider attack resistance for updates to the secure element (Owner user authentication required before updates are accepted)
Inline disk encryption acceleration with wrapped key support
64-bit-only device support code
Wi-Fi anonymity support including MAC address randomization, probe sequence number randomization and no other leaked identifiers
Support for disabling USB data and also USB as a whole at a hardware level in the USB controller
Reset attack mitigation for firmware-based boot modes such as fastboot mode zeroing memory left over from the OS and delaying opening up attack surface such as USB functionality until that’s completed
Debugging features such as JTAG or serial debugging must be inaccessible while the device is locked
This 1000 times. I can’t understand the logic behind willfully getting a Pixel phone. Isn’t it enough that Google spies on you every chance they get, you want actual hardware from them too? lol
LOTS of phones other than Pixels come with an unlockable bootloader, just check the list of supported phones for Lineage, Postmarket, Ubuntu Touch, crDroid, etc.and you’ll find a multitude of choices - many (most) of which are readily available in the USA as well. (source: me, who has flashed alternative AOSP ROM’s and Ubuntu Touch to around a dozen phones & tablets, none of which were Pixel’s)
What isn’t possible though is relocking the bootloader after flashing an alternative ROM or OS onto nearly all of these, meaning there is minimal security if the phone is stolen, or tampered with while unsupervised. And for those requiring physical security for their devices, that is a big deal.
Nobody’s saying that those other ones are terrible and they are better than stock Android for security and less tracking here. But it is the best one and does things that the other ones don’t.
You can use a fairphone with one of those and if you’re happy with it, it’s absolutely better than what most people do and if it works it works. But people really like GOS for a good reason. The cult comment can be applied to Linux users, so who gives a shit?
First off, that’s software when the user asked for an alternative to the Pixel, which is hardware.
Secondly, I don’t see how those are an alternative. It’s websites locking you out unless you run Google Play Services. LineageOS etc doesn’t run the official PlayServices which is what this requires.
Don’t give money to google by buying Pixel phones. Even buying used, creates demand as people are more likely to keep upgrading every year as they know it will be easy to sell their used Pixels for a good price.
There is and there never will be a perfect solution and you shouldn’t let an imperfect solution stop you from using the best one of these just because buying a used pixel MIGHT urge somebody to buy another new one. You may not want to do that, but it is silly and way too idealistic and impractical to demand others not to switch to Graphene because of that.
Buying a used pixel to degoogle and make your phone more secure and less likely to spy on you more than balances out the potential for there being one more new pixel on the future. There will never be a perfect solution and this one is fine enough for most. You may disagree and that’s ok.
There are other ROMs with other hardware that provide a similar level of privacy and more than enough security without giving money to google.
Yes they are also not perfect solutions, but they give you flexibility to support better phone manufacturers
the pixel is a very secure phone from a hardware level, the full list of security features missing from other android manufacturers is in the grapheneos faq
there is no comparable alternatives right now, though something might come out of the graphene and motorola deal
What’s so secure about it versus a basic $100 phone?
From the grapheneos faq section on device support, which details the kinds of hardware and firmware security features required and present on pixels (but may be missing on other devices):
The question is, are those missing features actually meaningful enough to support an evil company?
For me they are not.
This 1000 times. I can’t understand the logic behind willfully getting a Pixel phone. Isn’t it enough that Google spies on you every chance they get, you want actual hardware from them too? lol
It’s because in the US pixel phones are one of the only ways to get a phone with an unlocked bootloader. Or, in other words, to actually own a phone.
LOTS of phones other than Pixels come with an unlockable bootloader, just check the list of supported phones for Lineage, Postmarket, Ubuntu Touch, crDroid, etc.and you’ll find a multitude of choices - many (most) of which are readily available in the USA as well. (source: me, who has flashed alternative AOSP ROM’s and Ubuntu Touch to around a dozen phones & tablets, none of which were Pixel’s)
What isn’t possible though is relocking the bootloader after flashing an alternative ROM or OS onto nearly all of these, meaning there is minimal security if the phone is stolen, or tampered with while unsupervised. And for those requiring physical security for their devices, that is a big deal.
What’s the alternative?
e/os, lineageOS, iodeOS
Most GOS users would not consider these replacements
They are not as secure, but are private and more than secure enough in my opinion.
And some can be used with more ethical phones like the Fairphone.
GOS sometimes feel like a cult to me. GOS is absolutely the only good ROM and everything else is terrible. There is no nuance.
Nobody’s saying that those other ones are terrible and they are better than stock Android for security and less tracking here. But it is the best one and does things that the other ones don’t.
You can use a fairphone with one of those and if you’re happy with it, it’s absolutely better than what most people do and if it works it works. But people really like GOS for a good reason. The cult comment can be applied to Linux users, so who gives a shit?
First off, that’s software when the user asked for an alternative to the Pixel, which is hardware.
Secondly, I don’t see how those are an alternative. It’s websites locking you out unless you run Google Play Services. LineageOS etc doesn’t run the official PlayServices which is what this requires.
I took the question as an alternative to Grapheme, but perhaps you are correct.
And all those OSes you could install. Google Play Services if you want, even sandbox them like Graphene.
How is that an alternative? You still have to buy Android phones and they’re wayyyy less secure
There are mch more ethical companies than google to buy phones from, like Fairphone.
And “wayyy” less secure is very debatable. There a some security features missing, but still more than secure enough for the vast majority of users.
There is no ethical consumption under capitalism
Also I don’t give a shit about ethics if being ethical means a cop can get into my phone