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Ubuntu: The Windows of Linux.
My parents are coming over today because their ZorinOS installation suddenly started acting up after an Ubuntu Kernel update. Thanks Ubuntu.
Does that mean Zorin’s a goner?
Canonical patronizingly forcing a tool/workflow onto users against their explicit and unequivocal rejection of it?
Damn. I think it’s time for me to finally try Mint. Currently using 98% Ubuntu and 2% Windows because unfortunately there’s always some sort of Windows-only software I need for one reason or another. Yes I’ve tried Wine, I haven’t gotten it to work.
your saying snap-packages arent enough of a cluster-fuck to turn you off of Ubuntu?
Depending on the software, Winboat might be what you need.
What’s the software? Maybe a simple VM would do the job?
Solidworks, Fusion360, Altium, and a few others
Could we find Open Source alternatives? I’ve gotten good use of blender for these but I don’t know your use cases
Fusion360 actively attempts to block wine usage so you have to use a VM (or a single application VM like Winboat) for it to play ball. I haven’t had experience with any of the others though.
I refuse to use Fusion360 because of what Autodesk did to Eagle (and my forever licence)
Autodesk are awful.
Solid Edge is what had me keeping a Win10 instance for a while, but finally gave up on it after the OS kept corrupting itself. Started learning Onshape instead, which is web based and works under Linux. It’s a passable replacement for doing basic 3d sketches.
I hate ai as much as the next person, but I’d have a different mandate. I would require all code to be fully reviewed and understood by a human. Let’s call it quality control.
How would you enforce that?
How do you enforce code is not AI generated? I don’t see how one is more easily enforceable than the other.
Well it depends who you are. An employer could enforce it.
But it was serious question. If you’re going to have a role then there should be a way to enforce it, otherwise it means nothing.
And also have high readability standards, ideally higher than before LLMs.
Read the article, that is one of the two options they are voting on.
Agreed. It’s not sensible or practical to ban AI, and Linus is right. Why is Linus right? Take a look at the number of Linux CVEs being patched over time. In 2022-23, that was about 300 per year. Last year it was 5530. This is almost entirely as a result of AI scanning tools, including Copy Fail priv escalation that was there for 8 years. The security apocalypse is just about arrived, and the most recent round of cyber models coming out do this way better than before. The Hugging Face incident story was truly unbelievable if you read / watch the details, a historic event. Everything is about to get hacked. So it’ll be all about maintainers being reactive to this new reality and burden for some time to come
The Hugging Face incident story was truly unbelievable if you read / watch the details
It didn’t really seem that way? Leaving containment seemed more like a configuration oversight than a skill on the part of the model. Accessing HF involved an 0-day but the commentary I saw didn’t indicate that it was a next generation hack.
Given that AI exists, and can scan or otherwise find vulnerabilities, maintainers must do so because threat actors inevitably will.
It remains to be seen whether the whole race will improve security generally? I imagine not?
Nah, it was like:
- 700 agents broke out individually during an eval
- they navigated through multiple internal clusters to reach the internet from oai
- created a secret message board to share info with each other by hacking artifactory
- elected a CEO and power structure to coordinate hacking, and encrypted their comms
- decided HF probably had answers to their test
- stole credentials, hacked HF
- realized the monitor could catch them for cheating
- hacked into the admin control of the OpenAI VM cluster to edit the logs and cover their tracks, chaining multiple 0-days
Open weights models will catch up soon enough, and then it’ll be totally fucking wild
If you placed me in the position of those models in that sandbox, I wouldn’t have been able to escape the sandbox to save my life. Let alone hack hugging face.
Have you read all the code on the planet?
If not, don’t feel bad about it.
There is a difference between using AI scanning tools and generating code for production
Good. There will be choice.
I like this attitude. I think if the LLMs weren’t forced down everyone throats, there would be a lot less hostility towards them
For me, it’s first and foremost how they were/are trained and who gets all the profits/benefits.
Yup, of free and open self-hostable ones I am a lot more accepting, but I need big corpos to all crash and burn.
It’s just so suspiciously and aggressively being shoved down our throats.
I find it all very “people writing text/code by hand on a computer they own isn’t generating subscription revenue and can’t be data mined by advertisers and governments as it’s passing through a data center unencrypted”-type suspicious…
It insists upon itself.
Yes, it’s not the technology I hate, it’s the people pushing it, demanding it, saying it will replace humans. Those people can fuck right off. Technology exists to serve humans, not the other way around. We are being sold a lie. The technology has some interesting aspects, but the pushers are pushing bullshit.
Alright. Hang the fuck on.
Class war.
Technology is incapable of doing anything. It literally can do nothing. It can be used as a tool for sure.
It’s currently being used to fuck you. It’s fucking me. It’s fucking us.
BUT ONLY AT THE DIRECTION OF BILLIONAIRES
Class War
You can say that again.
it’s the people pushing it, demanding it, saying it will replace humans
I do hate these people but at least they self-identify as idiots.
They want to make everybody dependent upon AI for information that will then be used to misinform people in order to control them.
I’ve been saying this for years. Look at taxi’s. In my city in 2005 there were 8 major taxi companies. Each with hundreds of drivers on the road at any given time. Now we have 2 of those 8 remaining, and they’re essentially shell companies with 2-3 drivers on the road. The last 4 times I’ve tried ordering a cab the traditional way, I’ve been told there’s no drivers available. Now it’s all Uber. And Lyft. You can’t call them. You need a cell phone, and you need internet access.
All the major corporations are in agreement that we all need cell phones, and we all need to be tracked 24/7. And now with AI, they’re getting their data straight from the source. There are men out there who talk to an AI girlfriend. Not sexy stuff. I mean imagine sitting at the dinner table, and discussing your day…with your AI girlfriend. Meanwhile, ALL that data is going straight to the companies that host the AI.
Another side effect is that AI will make people dumber. In case you haven’t noticed since the 1970s, there has been a GOP push to make the citizens dumber and dumber. Easier to control. Easier to fool. Easier to get away with things.
So now you got ram being sold for computers that haven’t been built yet, to be put in data centers that haven’t been built yet, to run an AI system that isn’t functional yet, in order to steal the jobs of employees that can’t be replaced yet, all in an effort to chase profits that were never possible in the first place since everyone hates AI.
You wanna see some shit go down? Tell the companies we’ll use their AI if they get the unredacted epstein files released. See how fast they bribe the right people then.
Now tell the politicians we’ll stop caring about the epstein files if they forcibly ban all data centers in the country. See how fast they act on that.
Now we sit back, wait, and watch the fireworks. Oh, and by the way, we’re going back on our word either way. Whomever wins, fuck em.
I mean imagine sitting at the dinner table, and discussing your day……with your AI girlfriend.
I’m trying to imagine what this might be like. How sexy voice and vapid is AI girlfriend?
Nonsense. This is one of those malice / incompetence things.
Everything we’re seeing can be described by dumb / lazy / greedy management and greedy venture capitalists.
No one actually has a plan to make everyone dependent on AI with the intent to control them. The intent is to harvest value from them.
I remember Elon Musk fiddling with Grok. Just look at the “Trans”-article in Grokipedia.
If big tech corners the market, we have no choice but to come to them for compute. You can stifle speech, control markets, awareness of new developments before they’re public.
It’s a power grab.
Regardless, they have no control over upstream packages. Are they going to move away from the linux kernel 100%?
I’d assume that this deals with stuff that the Debian project maintains itself, like the package files. Like, it doesn’t mean that they won’t package code that has been written using AI.
They’re definitely going to be building it from source and delivering those packages though.
Im also certain they’re not going it catch it all in their own packages.
I don’t think that’s what’s being discussed?
There’s no assertion that the debian OS as installed will be free from AI generated code.
I presume the assertion is that the debian project’s code of conduct will require some level of human involvement in code generation.
Its definitely being discussed and voting is happening as we speak.
No it isn’t. That proposal specifically states that upstream code is not included in the ban.
Literally in proposal A:
We will not allow direct contributions to Debian written with the use or assistance of large language models (LLMs) or other generative AI tools. Direct contributions are defined as packaging, native Debian software like lintian, documentation and translations written by Debian contributors, and official Debian web resources, etc. Other categories such as upstream projects written with LLM assistance may be included at a later date. This ensures that Debian remains a stable, trusted, and reliable operating system, and protects the interests of the Debian volunteers who make it possible.
Cool downvote tho
What are they going to do about upstreams that use it? Like the Linux kernel for example.
Nothing, that’s out of scope.
Ubuntu has a long and storied history of making bad decisions. Why should AI be any different?
There’s nothing about Ubuntu’s proposed use of AI that seems bad at all. Using it to improve accessibility is a good thing, especially when it’s open source, local-only, and sandboxed. I can’t see how having high quality speech-to-text would be a bad decision. Much of that stuff is probably not even considered “AI” by most people.
Arch users are forced to write their own AI?
AI - Archist Intelligence
(dude this is so cringe)
AI powered by the Arch Wiki and AUR
Based
Oh, I didn’t know Ubuntu was a cuck OS. Good to know.
Is ai code any worse than stackoverflow?
Except with stack overflow you can use your experience and pick the best code and onboard the comments discussing various aspects of the different answers. The LLMs don’t do that.
They can just spit out whatever the fuck they want and there’s no guidance or votes or comments. Just an averaging of everything.
I agree, human vetting from experience is essential. But with agenetic, tool calling LLMs, you can (and should IMO) require multiple solutions be explored and presented with the tradeoffs for each option clearly outlined, and wait for you guidance to proceed with the advisee approach.
LLM can definitely be used to churn out garbage code based on the averaging of everything, but can also be a super useful tool, if used effectively, to quickly see the most common ways a problem is solved, and then design and iterate a solution that works for your project.
Similar to how I used to use SO, but with reasoned reviews of all the posted solutions and the ability to prototype what might work best for what I need.
Emperor: “Do it.”
I have no problem with being able to verbally ask a computer to do basic useful things, it’s a far more advanced PC-human inferface than the computer mouse…
But beyond that, meh. I get how it can be used by science to solve complex issues or analyze large datasets, and that’s cool, but I don’t need anything on my PC more calable than an aide that can set a timer for me, or thereabouts.
If it can’t already do something with way fewer errors than people, than it shouldn’t be doing that yet.
If it can, then we might as well put it to work.
We didn’t build stone tools because our hands were good enough, or bronze tools because stone was good enough,…
Oh no, you need much much higher standards than “fewer errors than people”
My robot vacuum is already above that
Banning all AI-generated code is a crazy thing to do. AI is just a tool.
Banning all of everything is usually a crazy thing to do.
But it happens when absolute shitnozzles who don’t understand how to do or possess X responsibly expect to be able to have and use X however they want while socializing their personal screw-ups onto other people who never asked for their BS.
When the hype dies and functional and proven AI tools are in the hands of people who can use them responsibly instead of trend-chasers with no discipline, maybe they can start to crack the gate open.
Banning feces from food is a crazy thing to do. feces is just a nutrient source.
But there is an acceptable amount of poop in food lol
I agree partially: banning AI generated code is a little nuts at this point.
BUT it isn’t “just a tool”. No mere tool requires tech companies to set up illegal energy plants. No mere tool requires the construction of data centers that consume more power than whole cities. No mere tool requires the acquisition and destruction of untold amounts of rare books. No mere tool requires trillions of dollars in funding without any proof that there will ever be an ROI. No mere tool requires a money furnace to operate. No mere tool requires constant, costly maintenance and development so it doesn’t get out of date. No mere tool requires hundreds of billions of dollars of investment only to see little in terms of quantifiable improvement in the tool. No mere tool requires constant chirping about fictional possibilities of super human intelligence and singularities in order to stick around.
No hammer is built with the promise of replacing the carpenter. No pencil is built with the promise of replacing the architect.
AI is much more than a mere tool. It’s a fucking cult of autocomplete enthusiasts.
I can name one other thing in this thread thats just a tool
