I’ve also thought about that a bit. The way I see it, transgender people definitely are following local cultural terms. Not the ones that they are expected to follow, but still.
What’s considered masculine or feminine isn’t standard across different cultural contexts either. For example, wearing skirts or pink aren’t exclusively feminine. In a western context they currently are, so that’s why western MTFs are currently inclined to wear those.
However, that wasn’t always the case. If the same person had been born a few centuries ago, pink would not have meant the same thing, and they they would have probably felt differently about that color. Also, what westerners would consider a skirt these days, can be a masculine or gender neutral piece of clothing in other cultures. Even today, there are place where mean wear something that westerners would call a skirt.
Not all mtfs wear skirts or conform to gender stereotypes. In my case it’s more about feeling dysphoria with my body/hormones and wanting to change that (and then presenting in a way that looks normal for my gender in the society I happen to be in), but I’m also nonbinary, so there’s that.
Yeah, I just brought up the skirts because they sit in a particularly strange cultural niche. Nail polish, specific hairstyles, and high heels are currently considered feminine, but I couldn’t think of how to use any of them in an interesting example.
Just as you said, people usually want to look normal. In order to do that that, they’ll gravitate towards whatever cultural gender norm they consider most fitting for them. Obviously, there’s variety in this matter, just like there is in everything else. There are always exceptions to whatever generalizations I make.
Non-binary people are an interesting group though. Don’t know any IRL, but I’ve been watching a few YT videos made by them. In this biased sample, they don’t seem to even want to fit any box. Some wear neutral clothes, some prefer bright colors. Seems like a diverse group to me. How about you then?
I fall under the nonbinary umbrella as I used to be genderfluid - my gender would change over time between feminine, agender, and masculine, and now it’s just genderflux as I oscillate between agender (no gender identity) and varying levels of femininity. (I plot it on a scale where G1=fully masculine, G5=agender, and G10=fully feminine. I used to go between G4 and G10 (mostly around G5-7), but recently it’s been more between G5 to G10 (with most of the time between G6-8) - so I’ve gotten more feminine over time.) And this is to do with my internal identity, mostly defined by levels of dysphoria/euphoria and how I feel about my body, not how I present.
I present mostly fairly unambiguously feminine though, maybe slightly tomboyish/gender neutral as I generally wear T shirts and jeans and stuff as opposed to say dresses. I do paint my nails, style my hair, wear makeup
In spite of feeling somewhat masculine to a varying degree, you still present feminine. I guess that’s not how you would prefer to present, now is it? If the people around you had no issues with it, would you go with a more agender or masculine style?
No, I present how I prefer to present. I don’t really know what an agender style would be, and I don’t like wearing masculine styles - since my gender doesn’t really go to that part of the spectrum anymore
I’ve also thought about that a bit. The way I see it, transgender people definitely are following local cultural terms. Not the ones that they are expected to follow, but still.
What’s considered masculine or feminine isn’t standard across different cultural contexts either. For example, wearing skirts or pink aren’t exclusively feminine. In a western context they currently are, so that’s why western MTFs are currently inclined to wear those.
However, that wasn’t always the case. If the same person had been born a few centuries ago, pink would not have meant the same thing, and they they would have probably felt differently about that color. Also, what westerners would consider a skirt these days, can be a masculine or gender neutral piece of clothing in other cultures. Even today, there are place where mean wear something that westerners would call a skirt.
Not all mtfs wear skirts or conform to gender stereotypes. In my case it’s more about feeling dysphoria with my body/hormones and wanting to change that (and then presenting in a way that looks normal for my gender in the society I happen to be in), but I’m also nonbinary, so there’s that.
Yeah, I just brought up the skirts because they sit in a particularly strange cultural niche. Nail polish, specific hairstyles, and high heels are currently considered feminine, but I couldn’t think of how to use any of them in an interesting example.
Just as you said, people usually want to look normal. In order to do that that, they’ll gravitate towards whatever cultural gender norm they consider most fitting for them. Obviously, there’s variety in this matter, just like there is in everything else. There are always exceptions to whatever generalizations I make.
Non-binary people are an interesting group though. Don’t know any IRL, but I’ve been watching a few YT videos made by them. In this biased sample, they don’t seem to even want to fit any box. Some wear neutral clothes, some prefer bright colors. Seems like a diverse group to me. How about you then?
I fall under the nonbinary umbrella as I used to be genderfluid - my gender would change over time between feminine, agender, and masculine, and now it’s just genderflux as I oscillate between agender (no gender identity) and varying levels of femininity. (I plot it on a scale where G1=fully masculine, G5=agender, and G10=fully feminine. I used to go between G4 and G10 (mostly around G5-7), but recently it’s been more between G5 to G10 (with most of the time between G6-8) - so I’ve gotten more feminine over time.) And this is to do with my internal identity, mostly defined by levels of dysphoria/euphoria and how I feel about my body, not how I present.
I present mostly fairly unambiguously feminine though, maybe slightly tomboyish/gender neutral as I generally wear T shirts and jeans and stuff as opposed to say dresses. I do paint my nails, style my hair, wear makeup
In spite of feeling somewhat masculine to a varying degree, you still present feminine. I guess that’s not how you would prefer to present, now is it? If the people around you had no issues with it, would you go with a more agender or masculine style?
No, I present how I prefer to present. I don’t really know what an agender style would be, and I don’t like wearing masculine styles - since my gender doesn’t really go to that part of the spectrum anymore
Oh, sorry. I got the numbers wrong. You clearly said G6-8, but I just didn’t have my brain switched on. 😃