I do think each Nation does need some form of online verification.
It’s pretty clear what kind of damage malicious actors can do by posing as a Nations citizens online, especially en masse and orchestrated. This problem is going to continue to get worse with the rise of LLMs.
The solution is better media literacy, better education, yatta yatta but that straight up ain’t happen, and certainly not at the scale needed to circumvent that kind of damage.
What other solutions do we have other than Nation wide online verification systems?
Seriously. We need a functional government and world leaders who can manage id systems and verification with privacy and security in mind, and act reasonably in the public’s interest, just like they do for driver’s licenses, voting, taxes, etc.
I don’t think it needs to be government based, I don’t see why it can’t be Independent.
I don’t see why the independent entity can’t work through the local DMV systems for verification.
You can cry “Oh, but then you’re trusting a corporation with your data” and like, first off, it can be a non-profit. Also, what are you doing with your ISP? The browser you use? The websites you visit? Every step of the way you’re trusting some corporation with your data - there’s no getting away from that.
I don’t think nonessential sites should have some kind of ID verification, but I do think there needs to be some spaces where IDs are verified.
If we can’t trust the government, and we can’t trust independent entities, and there are actual government entities around the world are pouring resources into both misinformation campaigns and LLMs to use against the populace, what options do we have?
Why can’t we trust The Linux Foundation (for example) with tie ins to government verification systems to socialize on closed box social websites where we know the individuals we’re socializing with are actual people of the Nation?
My point is that we as a society, and each Nation for it’s own security and health, needs to form some kind of plan to fight both non-citizens posing as legitimate citizens and the rise of LLMs doing the same. For the U.S. I’d argue it’s National Security; there’s pretty clear interference from external sources influencing the populace that don’t make it obvious. How do we do that in a non-intrusive way?
I think the line of thinking that the internet needs to stay private, anonymous, and open is old and narrow-minded. It’s no longer the 90s. We don’t live in a utopia. And corporations aren’t the only entities online trying to influence readers/users. If we can’t feasibly educate a Nations populace on media literacy then there needs to be other protections in place.
Marketing used to be able to target a specific area of populace that would be most likely to fall for their ads or influence, but now it’s being compiled into LLMs which are much faster. This is a threat that is just going to continue to grow until it’s a complete shitshow. We all already have very little privacy out the gate (assuming average level of tech knowledge or whatever).
I’m hoping in the next ~10 years this problem gets solved. I don’t know how, I don’t care how, but the easiest solution is to have some sites use a trustable verification system. I don’t think we can feasibly trust any government with this kind of solution, so the next best thing is an independent entity that chooses not to work with said government since ya know, they’re independent. Obviously I’m not suggesting trusting Planitir or whatever because they do have strong ties to government entities.
I’m hoping in the next ~10 years this problem gets solved. I don’t know how, I don’t care how.
That’s the gist of my take.
I think misinformation campaigns by BFAs and botnets are going to be an absolute nightmare for every society worldwide within the next ~10 years. Let’s be clear - it’s absolutely a part of international cyber warfare. This will of course affect the Democratic societies first and hit them the hardest due to politics.
IMO Nations worldwide are already behind the curve and I think the U.S. is a prime example of how misinformation campaigns can be used to quickly sow distrust in leadership, promote division, and start movements. You could argue that U.S. has been headed this way for years, but it’s been a swift change of guard when compared to the past few decades. I think each Nation is already dealing with this kind of cyber warfare but again, are behind the game due to slow politics, slow policies, and lack of policies on tech.
I understand your concerns, but you also don’t have any solutions. Maybe you don’t think that misinformation and botnets through LLMs online are a problem? Maybe you think the majority of society is educated enough to distinguish misinformation or detect LLMs/bots?
Again, you offer no solutions to our problems. No ideas. Your hopelessness is boring and unoriginal.
Yes, I absolutely do believe that guarding against targeted misinformation is more important than guarding against government intrusion since the government can already strongarm ISPs, OS manufacturers, and web admins for information. If cyber warfare is happening through misinformation to erode Democracy, then I’m rooting for my Government over international Government who are also pining for the same control. There is not going to be a perfect solution to this issue.
It really sounds like, with your lack of ideas or real meaningful recognition of the problem here, that you’ve already given up and given in. That there’s no clawing our way back from our current position. Without ideas or solutions we’re destined to just accept what’s happening and it’s every person for themselves. No safety net against this kind of problem.
Finally, I’m not trying to convince you of shit, I’m trying to have a normal conversation of ideas in a public space, but you have no ideas. Bring something to the table besides pessimism or fuck off, yeah?
You need to trust your government or trust it to not turn evil
that requires trusting my neighbors not to turn evil, or rather >20% evil (since all it took to elect Krasnov was 20% of the population voting for him) and I have lived in places that were >60% evil, so…
I do think each Nation does need some form of online verification.
It’s pretty clear what kind of damage malicious actors can do by posing as a Nations citizens online, especially en masse and orchestrated. This problem is going to continue to get worse with the rise of LLMs.
The solution is better media literacy, better education, yatta yatta but that straight up ain’t happen, and certainly not at the scale needed to circumvent that kind of damage.
What other solutions do we have other than Nation wide online verification systems?
Seriously. We need a functional government and world leaders who can manage id systems and verification with privacy and security in mind, and act reasonably in the public’s interest, just like they do for driver’s licenses, voting, taxes, etc.
looks outside
Oh no
deleted by creator
I don’t think it needs to be government based, I don’t see why it can’t be Independent.
I don’t see why the independent entity can’t work through the local DMV systems for verification.
You can cry “Oh, but then you’re trusting a corporation with your data” and like, first off, it can be a non-profit. Also, what are you doing with your ISP? The browser you use? The websites you visit? Every step of the way you’re trusting some corporation with your data - there’s no getting away from that.
deleted by creator
I don’t think nonessential sites should have some kind of ID verification, but I do think there needs to be some spaces where IDs are verified.
If we can’t trust the government, and we can’t trust independent entities, and there are actual government entities around the world are pouring resources into both misinformation campaigns and LLMs to use against the populace, what options do we have?
Why can’t we trust The Linux Foundation (for example) with tie ins to government verification systems to socialize on closed box social websites where we know the individuals we’re socializing with are actual people of the Nation?
My point is that we as a society, and each Nation for it’s own security and health, needs to form some kind of plan to fight both non-citizens posing as legitimate citizens and the rise of LLMs doing the same. For the U.S. I’d argue it’s National Security; there’s pretty clear interference from external sources influencing the populace that don’t make it obvious. How do we do that in a non-intrusive way?
I think the line of thinking that the internet needs to stay private, anonymous, and open is old and narrow-minded. It’s no longer the 90s. We don’t live in a utopia. And corporations aren’t the only entities online trying to influence readers/users. If we can’t feasibly educate a Nations populace on media literacy then there needs to be other protections in place.
Marketing used to be able to target a specific area of populace that would be most likely to fall for their ads or influence, but now it’s being compiled into LLMs which are much faster. This is a threat that is just going to continue to grow until it’s a complete shitshow. We all already have very little privacy out the gate (assuming average level of tech knowledge or whatever).
I’m hoping in the next ~10 years this problem gets solved. I don’t know how, I don’t care how, but the easiest solution is to have some sites use a trustable verification system. I don’t think we can feasibly trust any government with this kind of solution, so the next best thing is an independent entity that chooses not to work with said government since ya know, they’re independent. Obviously I’m not suggesting trusting Planitir or whatever because they do have strong ties to government entities.
deleted by creator
That’s the gist of my take.
I think misinformation campaigns by BFAs and botnets are going to be an absolute nightmare for every society worldwide within the next ~10 years. Let’s be clear - it’s absolutely a part of international cyber warfare. This will of course affect the Democratic societies first and hit them the hardest due to politics.
IMO Nations worldwide are already behind the curve and I think the U.S. is a prime example of how misinformation campaigns can be used to quickly sow distrust in leadership, promote division, and start movements. You could argue that U.S. has been headed this way for years, but it’s been a swift change of guard when compared to the past few decades. I think each Nation is already dealing with this kind of cyber warfare but again, are behind the game due to slow politics, slow policies, and lack of policies on tech.
I understand your concerns, but you also don’t have any solutions. Maybe you don’t think that misinformation and botnets through LLMs online are a problem? Maybe you think the majority of society is educated enough to distinguish misinformation or detect LLMs/bots?
deleted by creator
Again, you offer no solutions to our problems. No ideas. Your hopelessness is boring and unoriginal.
Yes, I absolutely do believe that guarding against targeted misinformation is more important than guarding against government intrusion since the government can already strongarm ISPs, OS manufacturers, and web admins for information. If cyber warfare is happening through misinformation to erode Democracy, then I’m rooting for my Government over international Government who are also pining for the same control. There is not going to be a perfect solution to this issue.
It really sounds like, with your lack of ideas or real meaningful recognition of the problem here, that you’ve already given up and given in. That there’s no clawing our way back from our current position. Without ideas or solutions we’re destined to just accept what’s happening and it’s every person for themselves. No safety net against this kind of problem.
Finally, I’m not trying to convince you of shit, I’m trying to have a normal conversation of ideas in a public space, but you have no ideas. Bring something to the table besides pessimism or fuck off, yeah?
This is a bad take. All of it.
Cool, thanks for the notes, alternatives, and ideas. Critical thinking on full display here.
Guess we’ll just have to keep dealing with the weaponization of misinformation in the rise of LLMs all on our own.
I’m sure the undereducated will be just fine and utopia is just around the corner.
I promise you’ll be ok if you think about it for just a little bit longer.
that requires trusting my neighbors not to turn evil, or rather >20% evil (since all it took to elect Krasnov was 20% of the population voting for him) and I have lived in places that were >60% evil, so…