The Indiana store is one of several Range USA locations that faced losing its license for breaking rules designed to deter illegal sales. Now the Trump administration is weakening penalties for failing to comply.
Even if the original sale was legal, anyone can “decide” to sell a gun they just bought the second they walk out the door, and can sell it to anyone they want without even asking for the buyers name.
They could walk up to a stranger on the sidewalk and offer to sell it for a profit immediately and break zero laws.
You’ve got “decide” in quotes suggesting that the person is actually buying the gun for resale. Isn’t that the definition a straw purchase which is illegal?
Straw purchases aren’t outright illegal though. Most of the time straw purchase laws require that the reseller understand that the ultimate owner is not legally able to recieve the product or intends to comit a crime.
So, yes, one could do so without committing a crime under current US law.
A straw purchase is just buying a thing for resale. Buying groceries for a grandmother is included in that definition.
Most of the time straw purchase laws require that the reseller understand that the ultimate owner is not legally able to recieve the product or intends to comit a crime.
So, yes, one could do so without committing a crime under current US law.
It does not, it states that a person can’t lie on an a form to purchase a weapon by stating they are purchasing the weapon for themselves when they are not. This doesn’t criminalize all straw purchases, it simply agrees with the fact that lying on these forms is a crime. If a person answers truthfully, recieveds a weapon, and resells it, no crime is commuted by that individual.
His crime was the false statement not the straw purchase. Here’s the holding:
A person who buys a gun on someone else’s behalf while falsely claiming that it is for himself makes a material misrepresentation that violates federal law because it concerns “information required by [Chapter 44 of Title 18 of the United States Code] to be kept” in the dealer’s records.
I’ll admit, I don’t know if you legally need to answer that specific question in all states or any for that matter so you may be right. I’m only really taking issue with the idea that straw purchases are a crime in and of themselves. They are not
It does not, it states that a person can’t lie on an a form to purchase a weapon by stating they are purchasing the weapon for themselves when they are not. This doesn’t criminalize all straw purchases, it simply agrees with the fact that lying on these forms is a crime. If a person answers truthfully, recieveds a weapon, and resells it, no crime is commuted by that individual.
The form itself already covers all the scenarios which would meet the legal definition of Straw Purchase of a firearm. The form has questions that eliminate Straw Purchases if answered truthfully. Lying on the form is illegal. I see no path for a legal Straw Purchase. The lengths the ATF went through explaining what is and is not allowed is extensive.
I’ll admit, I don’t know if you legally need to answer that specific question in all states or any for that matter so you may be right.
You can read the complete ATF Form 4473 (Question 11a covers what we’re talking about here) for yourself. ATF is Federal, which supersedes any state laws with regard to the sale of firearms so state laws on this point are irrelevant.
I’m only really taking issue with the idea that straw purchases are a crime in and of themselves. They are not
Where, with the clear described scenarios listed for Question 11a (and the expanded text for that question elsewhere in that form), do you see a scenario where the actions which meet the legal definition of a Straw Purchase of a firearm are allowed?
This doesn’t criminalize all straw purchases, it simply agrees with the fact that lying on these forms is a crime. If a person answers truthfully, recieveds a weapon, and resells it, no crime is commuted by that individual.
You’ve got “decide” in quotes suggesting that the person is actually buying the gun for resale. Isn’t that the definition a straw purchase which is illegal?
Of course. Not that that actually stops anyone who is fine with committing crime.
I was focusing on @[email protected] 's “and break zero laws” statement.
Yes someone can absolutely perform a straw purchase, but that will be breaking a law.
Straw purchases aren’t outright illegal though. Most of the time straw purchase laws require that the reseller understand that the ultimate owner is not legally able to recieve the product or intends to comit a crime.
So, yes, one could do so without committing a crime under current US law.
A straw purchase is just buying a thing for resale. Buying groceries for a grandmother is included in that definition.
I think Abramski v. United States disagrees with your conclusion.
“Abramski’s defense was that the misrepresentation was not material since his uncle was legally capable of making the purchase himself”
The Supreme Court upheld the conviction delivered by the lower court.
It does not, it states that a person can’t lie on an a form to purchase a weapon by stating they are purchasing the weapon for themselves when they are not. This doesn’t criminalize all straw purchases, it simply agrees with the fact that lying on these forms is a crime. If a person answers truthfully, recieveds a weapon, and resells it, no crime is commuted by that individual.
His crime was the false statement not the straw purchase. Here’s the holding:
I’ll admit, I don’t know if you legally need to answer that specific question in all states or any for that matter so you may be right. I’m only really taking issue with the idea that straw purchases are a crime in and of themselves. They are not
The form itself already covers all the scenarios which would meet the legal definition of Straw Purchase of a firearm. The form has questions that eliminate Straw Purchases if answered truthfully. Lying on the form is illegal. I see no path for a legal Straw Purchase. The lengths the ATF went through explaining what is and is not allowed is extensive.
You can read the complete ATF Form 4473 (Question 11a covers what we’re talking about here) for yourself. ATF is Federal, which supersedes any state laws with regard to the sale of firearms so state laws on this point are irrelevant.
Where, with the clear described scenarios listed for Question 11a (and the expanded text for that question elsewhere in that form), do you see a scenario where the actions which meet the legal definition of a Straw Purchase of a firearm are allowed?