- cross-posted to:
- [email protected]
- cross-posted to:
- [email protected]
Many of us know how bad modern cars are for privacy. Yet many of our friends and neighbors do not realize how intrusive it really is. I linked a blog entry from Mozilla’s investigation about car privacy. In that blog is a link to their make-by-make analysis. The amount of very intimate information a modern car collects is honestly appalling. It includes health data, real time mood information, weight gain or loss, and so on. And it does so even for passengers.
The web has many resources talking about this problem, but almost no resources on what to do about it. I know the simple thing is to say, “just drive an old car bro!” That’s fine if you can, but not everyone can. Also it has drawbacks like more maintenance. Sometimes less safety if it’s older than certain safety features. For the purpose of this thread, it is more interesting to focus on newer, surveillance enabled cars which are the majority of what people drive on the road today.
Some people have figured out how to bypass the surveillance package on some cars. One way is to uncouple the antenna it uses to phone home. Other times you can bypass the telematics module or remove a fuse that powers it. I feel like we really need a central model by model repository of information.
Past that, how do we prove it has worked, if we do it? Has anyone reading this tried to use an RF detector to see if their car is still trying to phone home, after they have bypassed telematics? What are your experiences? I want to buy one and use it to test my own car, but the info on the web seems sketch.
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Depends entirely on your car make and model. On many models you can disconnect or remove the fuse for the telematics control unit (TCU) and it’s as simple as that. However you won’t receive any OTA updates that will likely solve problems. And if you reconnect to get them, there’s no guarantee your car doesn’t suddenly dump all your personal data obtained in the meantime onto company servers. Further I find it more and more likely that OEMs either already have or will add a ToS that requires you to keep all this stuff connected, and they’ll argue that the data collection is part of the sale.
Slate seems to be the only brand currently that intends to deliver vehicles with zero connectivity required.
Slate seems to be the only brand currently that intends to deliver vehicles with zero connectivity required.
Do you mean these guys? That’s the first I heard of them so thank you for that! I thought it would turn out to be a European make, but they’re on my side of the pond. A zero-connectivity electric car would be the dream. I like the idea of electric cars but so far they have all been even more wrapped up in telematics than internal combustion cars.
Yes, zero connectivity, relatively affordable, highly customizeable, and repair-friendly (for now). The only connectivity is through the phone app. Only downside is you have to buy a stupid truck. They could have made it a lot cheaper as a coupe.
Not really true for pricing. A small truck isn’t much more weight or material than a sedan.
It’s nothing to do with weight or material but aerodynamics.
Riiiught. How is that going to make it cheaper? They can use a bit smaller of a battery to get the same range? That size difference would just be around $500.
No, more like several thousand. In addition to charging faster.
Lol. No it isn’t. The batteries are only 53kw\h in size and they’re using shitty NMC batteries instead of LFP (or other) batteries because they want the full $7,500 tax credit. $500 would more than make up for the aerodynamics. No manufacturers want to use those batteries anymore because they only last like 2\5 the charge cycles compared to LifeP04, and it get even worse compared to other batteries coming out right now. Really, putting those batteries in something with only a 150 mile range is kind of a shitty move, IMO. You’ll need a new battery after 100,000 miles. Fine for a cheaper option I suppose, so long as the batteries are easy to replace and it won’t cost $5,000 in labor.
There is a private mode in my Kia Ev3, but yeah, It disables almost everything.
What are the chances that it’s just lying? Or re-enables itself periodically?
I already got a phone why do I need another one strapped to my car?
I don’t have the time or energy but if someone wanted to create a database with all the known ways to disconnect cars from relaying data for everything known searchable by make/model/year they’d be pretty fucking awesome.
Just bought a '22 Bolt because there was a guide to terminate its 4g antenna here: https://imgur.com/gallery/step-by-step-guide-to-disable-onstar-on-2022-chevy-bolt-this-is-reversible-not-permanent-n00QKnH
That’s awesome
I wish there was a solution for this, but it sounds like the only way to fix the problem is regulation.
Good luck with that, we can’t bribe this administration as well as the auto lobby can.
I mostly agree. But sometimes if a single jurisdiction gets regulation in place, it can be cheaper for companies to produce a single model to comply with all of them, rather than make multiple models. Even if they do make multiple models, it still means there is a supply of privacy-spec cars.
California in the USA has been more privacy friendly than most states. If California would crank up some car privacy regs, maybe work with the Europeans and Canada on a common legal standard, that is a huge foot in the door! It means people in other US states could buy a California-spec car. If the momentum builds enough, maybe companies would say screw it and sell the privacy-spec cars everywhere. That happened in the past with car safety regs. It went from auto companies whining about it, to the same companies featuring it as a selling point. Look how well our cars do in crash tests!
I agree car privacy is going to be a hard fight. Auto companies will fight dirty to avoid privacy regs. But we can push on this. A groundswell of public support can’t hurt.
We just got a new car, first “modern” one I’ve had basically ever, and this has been one of my biggest concerns since we got it, but there really don’t seem to be any straightforward solutions yet.
Return it and get an older car. You are aware of the issues and they concern you so why would you choose to continue to live with it?
