What I’m gathering from the comments on here is less that liberalism as a concept or ideal is the issue, it’s that it’s been used as a label of ideals that are it’s exact antithesis in support of the rich fucks driving the world into the ground. And as you said, the people supporting them thinking those things are liberalism when they are not. Am I following you correctly? Thanks for the reply. I’m still early in understanding some of this. Wasn’t long ago I found that “liberal” and “leftist” as used by right wing people in the US was co-opted into a whole different meaning than their actual definitions
Wasn’t long ago I found that “liberal” and “leftist” as used by right wing people in the US was co-opted into a whole different meaning than their actual definitions
i’m also new to understand what leftism is and one thing about liberalism that has become crystal clear to me so far is that its sole material purpose in the modern day is a co-option vehicle for the epstein class in a similar way that religion – especially christianity – has been repeatedly co-opted in the past to foster bigotry and violence; especially holy wars like the crusades and justifying the global african slave trade.
and a lot like how christians refuse to accept that their faith has done significantly more evil than good; liberals will refuse to believe that their principals only serve capitalism and will fight just as hard as any christian to draw a distinction between their faith and the horrors that their faith has inflicted upon the world as if they were not one-in-the-same thing.
Thanks for your reply, all the comments here have been helpful in understanding this a little better, but I appreciate that clear analogy. That’ll help me explain to others as well.
I’m not married to any one philosophy of politics or economic theory, I can see the things that don’t work so I like seeing and pressing on some things I’m less familiar with so I can understand them better. I think the ideas in many ideologies are well intentioned, and each style has a potential benefit. Just trying to better see where and how precisely what have today went off the rails. Thanks again. 🙂
I doubt that there’s any analogy that will inform you sufficiently, so I feel it’s important to share something else w you that I’ve learned in my own journey in understanding leftism.
Christians have centuries worth of retrospection that makes them more patient w individuals who reject their ideology; liberals do not. Liberals well blame you for the failures of thier ideology and will accuse you of behavior that they feel diminishes it; a lot like Christians of the past would persecute and punish atheists (or humanists, or diets, or believers of different faiths, etc.). You should expect vitriol to come from every avenue for being willing to question your reality as well as take intentional efforts to ensure that it doesn’t embitter you to the world.
Intentional is the key word here, you can’t leave it to chance like you’ve likely done in the past as I have because the vitriol will come from surprising sources and take surprising forms.
Liberalism is in support of capitalism. And capital does not care for any of those nice sounding ideals. So it doesn’t make any actual sense since supporting capitalism necessarily invalidates the lovely sounding ideas.
Liberalism necessarily leads to the rich fucks driving the world into the ground.
I don’t quite understand how it’s supporting capitalism. It seems like you could have one without the other no? I can see how it’s been abused here in the US but not sure why that means it will necessarily follow that pattern.
What I’m gathering from the comments on here is less that liberalism as a concept or ideal is the issue, it’s that it’s been used as a label of ideals that are it’s exact antithesis in support of the rich fucks driving the world into the ground. And as you said, the people supporting them thinking those things are liberalism when they are not. Am I following you correctly? Thanks for the reply. I’m still early in understanding some of this. Wasn’t long ago I found that “liberal” and “leftist” as used by right wing people in the US was co-opted into a whole different meaning than their actual definitions
i’m also new to understand what leftism is and one thing about liberalism that has become crystal clear to me so far is that its sole material purpose in the modern day is a co-option vehicle for the epstein class in a similar way that religion – especially christianity – has been repeatedly co-opted in the past to foster bigotry and violence; especially holy wars like the crusades and justifying the global african slave trade.
and a lot like how christians refuse to accept that their faith has done significantly more evil than good; liberals will refuse to believe that their principals only serve capitalism and will fight just as hard as any christian to draw a distinction between their faith and the horrors that their faith has inflicted upon the world as if they were not one-in-the-same thing.
Thanks for your reply, all the comments here have been helpful in understanding this a little better, but I appreciate that clear analogy. That’ll help me explain to others as well.
I’m not married to any one philosophy of politics or economic theory, I can see the things that don’t work so I like seeing and pressing on some things I’m less familiar with so I can understand them better. I think the ideas in many ideologies are well intentioned, and each style has a potential benefit. Just trying to better see where and how precisely what have today went off the rails. Thanks again. 🙂
I doubt that there’s any analogy that will inform you sufficiently, so I feel it’s important to share something else w you that I’ve learned in my own journey in understanding leftism.
Christians have centuries worth of retrospection that makes them more patient w individuals who reject their ideology; liberals do not. Liberals well blame you for the failures of thier ideology and will accuse you of behavior that they feel diminishes it; a lot like Christians of the past would persecute and punish atheists (or humanists, or diets, or believers of different faiths, etc.). You should expect vitriol to come from every avenue for being willing to question your reality as well as take intentional efforts to ensure that it doesn’t embitter you to the world.
Intentional is the key word here, you can’t leave it to chance like you’ve likely done in the past as I have because the vitriol will come from surprising sources and take surprising forms.
It’s not quite that.
Liberalism is in support of capitalism. And capital does not care for any of those nice sounding ideals. So it doesn’t make any actual sense since supporting capitalism necessarily invalidates the lovely sounding ideas.
Liberalism necessarily leads to the rich fucks driving the world into the ground.
I don’t quite understand how it’s supporting capitalism. It seems like you could have one without the other no? I can see how it’s been abused here in the US but not sure why that means it will necessarily follow that pattern.